Karolina Wydra Imparts the Universal Sadness of Pluribus

This interview discusses events from this week’s episode of Pluribus.

How do you play billions of people at once? That’s something Karolina Wydra had to figure out for her career-making turn on Pluribus. Vince Gilligan’s sci-fi series centers on Carol (Rhea Seehorn), one of the 13 people who survive an alien virus that turns the Earth into a planet of smiling worker bees referred to as “the Others.” But almost as crucial to the show is Zosia, Carol’s designated Other liaison, chosen for her physical resemblance to the dreamy hero from the fantasy-romance novels that made Carol famous.

As Zosia, Wydra embodies the sort of uncomplicated peace and joy felt by the entirety of the hive mind. For someone who worked with Bryan Cranston on Sneaky Pete and always hoped to work with Gilligan, it was a dream role, but playing the uniquely unfazed character had its difficulties. “For me, the challenge was to not go on this emotional journey and mirror Rhea’s emotions,” she says. “I’m a very expressive and reactionary human being, so holding that in was incredible. It made me pause and hold space for other people more in my life because I was doing this day in, day out for Carol.”

I’ve read a bit about your experience getting cast on the show after really wanting to work with Vince Gilligan. Can you tell me a bit about how that process went?
When I was 39 or 40, I decided to take a pause from acting and become a mom. It was very important for me to be there for my boys. It was right after the pandemic, and my agent and manager decided that we should end the relationship. When my son was almost 2 years old, I was thinking about going back. Out of nowhere, I got this email from a lady I’ve never met. She works for this commercial agency, and I’m on their roster, but I never work with them. She said, “There’s a request for an audition for you!” I saw the name “Vince Gilligan.” It always was my dream to work with him. I told my team, “I’ll be a bench, I’ll be background. I’ll do anything.”

The character description was something along the lines of “someone who’s kind and loving.” At first, I wasn’t going to audition. When you dream of something for so long and it’s right in front of you, you almost don’t want to do it so you can keep dreaming. There was a part of me that said, Just do it. What do you have to lose?

How did your early conversations with Vince go?
I had so many questions from the first two scripts about how these people operate and walk through life. I also asked him if he was inspired by Jainism. A year prior, I had gone to India and met one of the priests and gone to their temple. I was utterly fascinated by that religion because they don’t believe in killing even insects. They wear these masks to cover their mouth so they don’t breathe in an insect. The way they live is fascinating and hard-core and quite beautiful. We were talking about that, and Vince said he spoke to Bryan Cranston about me. That was Monday, and on Friday I met with Vince and met Rhea for the first time.

As an actor, when you test for those things, it’s quite scary and overwhelming, but they were so welcoming and supportive. Afterward, I had to wait a week, and that was the longest week of my life. Then I got a call from the manager saying that within an hour, Apple was going to watch my tape and make its final decision. I remember turning off my phone because my body couldn’t comprehend: Your life is about to change, and you’re going to work with Vince Gilligan, or you’re back to wishing. I was watching a movie, and my husband’s phone lit up with the manager’s name. He said, “Break out the Champagne.” A lot of tears and jumping around and screaming.

How does this role differ from others you’ve had on series like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. or Sneaky Pete?
This role has been transformative for me in many ways. I always play villains. True Blood, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. — even in Sneaky Pete, you could say I was a villain. This role, to play someone who has the whole world in her mind, someone who is so kind and serene and loving and unflappable, was something I’ve never played to this level before. These people are humans, not robots, and have this “virus” so they don’t experience the world the same way as the Old-Schoolers do. There’s no prejudice. They’re not murderers. They want nothing but the best for everyone.

When you do a role, whatever is going on inside of you, you give it to the character. But this character doesn’t get nervous. It was an incredible challenge, and at times, I would question if what I was doing was enough or too much. Vince would help me with constant reminders of who these people are: They have such a deep need, a biological imperative, to share this gift. For me, the challenge was to not go on this emotional journey and mirror Rhea’s emotions. I’m a very expressive and reactionary human being, so holding that in was incredible. Outside of the role, it made me pause and hold space for other people more in my life, because I was doing this day in, day out for Carol. It definitely helped me with my kids.

How did you get the physicality right?
I did a lot of script analysis and tackling things scene by scene. I did a lot of meditation and bodywork. The bodywork was relaxing my muscles and body so I could show up fully present and hold space for Rhea while being in that space of bliss and love for her. I tapped into her subconscious and what it means to be in that state of serenity.

Did you also work with a movement coordinator?
Yes, we had Nito, who would help me during the glitch in the system when Carol gets angry at the Others. Nito would work with me on what that glitch would look like in my body. We would work on different parts depending on the camera angle and the levels of how far to take it. It’s not just shaking; it’s a glitch in the system. He would call it “grandpa hands.”

I want to touch on a scene from episode two in which Carol and Diabaté talk about the possibility of having sex with one of the Others, who seem to happily consent to anything. But Carol calling Zosia a “sex doll” doesn’t feel quite right. And now, in this episode, she even refers to Zosia as “fuckable.” Do you ever try to allow for some element of sexual tension in your scenes with Carol?
I wouldn’t say there’s “sexual tension,” but you touched on something I thought about a lot. It’s easy to be like, “Oh my God, these people will sleep with anybody and do anything.” It’s one of those things that comes down to belief system: It depends who you’re talking to and how you look at it. There are people in today’s world who believe love is love, and having multiple partners and spreading love isn’t looked at negatively: It’s one love, and I share my body because I want to and I feel okay with it.

Because the Others love one another, they don’t look at each other as just another being. They’re all one. It’s an expression of love. They love Carol, and they love Mr. Diabaté. It’s a different point of view on intimacy. That scene with Zosia in the middle is about seeing two people fighting over something that doesn’t need to be fought over: But I love you, and I love you, and we don’t need to have any discourse about it. Being stuck in the middle is what saddens the Others. It doesn’t need to be that way. There is no conflict or fighting or suffering in the new world. It’s constantly these opposing sides: how the Old-Schoolers view the world and how the Others view the world.

There are so many prisms through which you can watch the show. Focusing on sexuality alone, there’s so much to talk about. I think of polyamorous people who might view relationships and intimacy in a totally different way than monogamous people.
Absolutely. There is no judgment of sharing one’s self when you want to. You just want to. The sexuality between Zosia and Carol, it all comes from love. Zosia has nothing but utter, unconditional love for Carol. However Carol takes that is Carol’s journey.

I found the first hospital scene this week interesting. Carol has been speaking to the hive mind throughout the very same day, so by visiting Zosia in the hospital, she’s technically visiting the same person she has already been speaking to. But the conversation isn’t framed that way. In Carol’s mind, she’s meeting an individual.
It’s hard to comprehend the thought for someone who isn’t experienced in it. Physically, Zosia is a different person, and her response would be a little bit different; we are in a collective mind, but my physicality has its individuality, and some of my personality has individuality. I think there’s a bit of a disconnect just by speaking to a different person. I’ve been with her on this journey for the past few days, so I’m a familiar face to her. Talking to me is more familiar than talking to someone else who is also me. I do think, on some level, Carol cares about Zosia.

In the final scene, Carol drugs Zosia and she goes into cardiac arrest.
I had chills reading the script. If I’m crying, the whole world is crying, and it manifests in their physicality. That moment is about us feeling sad that Carol will do whatever it takes to not join us. We can’t make her happy. There’s nothing we can do. It makes us really sad, and the whole world experiences that sadness. I remember when we shot it, and people were chanting “Carol, please,” it was really eerie. You felt the collective mind as one.

As soon as Zosia started breaking down, I got nervous because I knew the Others would walk over soon enough.
Were you worried for Carol?

I didn’t think she would get hurt, but I was nervous to see what would happen, since it’s all such a big question mark.
How did you feel about the world crying?

Also disturbed. It’s great to gradually learn some of the answers, even as so many new things come up. I’m always texting my sister a million questions we both have about how this all works.
That makes me so happy, because we did that on set all the time, and we still do. You finish watching it, and you text your sister and you have a conversation about it. It doesn’t stop. You want to sit with it and talk about what it all means, what it evokes in you.